‘Downtown Dialogue” To Lead to a Better Greeneville?
Greeneville has been nationally recognized several times as being a good place to live and work, thanks in part to a viable downtown district.
Jann Mirkov, executive director of Main Street Greeneville, told me last week that the goal of “Downtown Dialogue” is to identify our strengths, opportunities and challenges to build a stronger downtown, a stronger Greeneville and a stronger Greene County. I’m all for that.
Last year, Greeneville is listed in the second edition of The 50 Best Small Southern Towns, and downtown Greeneville played a role in that distinction.
The 428-page book states, “Greeneville has been listed in such books as The 100 Best Small Towns in America and America’s Most Charming Towns and Villages, and was named one of only 10 All-American Cities in 1999 by the National League of Cities.”
The publication emphasizes Greeneville historic character, specifically citing the “charming, well-cared-for houses in the Historic District,” which includes downtown Greeneville.
In 2005, Greeneville-Greene County celebrated our distinction as one of the “100 Best Communities for Young People,” a honor bestowed by America’s Promise, a national organization founded by retired Gen. Colin Power, former U.S. secretary of state.
During the celebration reception, Tom Wright, who was then Greene County General Sessions and Juvenile Court judge, called the community’s national recognition “a verification of the work we are doing as a community.”
Judge Wright also said the honor demonstrates how important it is to involve schools, businesses and churches in working together for a community’s youth population.
Hopefully, many good things are in store for our entire community, including downtown Greeneville.
Please share your thoughts, ideas, wishes and hopes for downtown Greeneville in this “Downtown Dialogue” blog.
Note: If you’d like to ask a question or make a suggestion for a topic, hit the ‘comments’ link under this article. On that page you can leave a comment that will be addressed at the meeting or in future posts.
i think and have always thought a way to get more people downtown is to put an olive garden in it would create jobs and revive downtown as more shops would be attracted to a thriving food chain
Comment by michael brockwell — March 27, 2009 @ 10:39 am
I Live here in Greeneville and I think things would be better if all the side walks were in good repair and wheelchair friendly. I know they aren’t. Church Street side walks down by the new movie theater are terrible and as you go all the way up to Highland School they are bad and so are the ones opposite side of the street. Even Summer street needs to have side walks worked on and added to going all the way up. I like to go the stores and such and when family from out of state come they like to walk to the store but they fear to do so because there aren’t any sidewalks all the way up and down Summer Street. Things like that would benefit everyone. Visitors and residents a like.
Comment by Marc Weber — March 27, 2009 @ 11:40 am
Get rid of the chain restaurants, McDonald’s, etc. Put in some good restaurants that offer something these chains can’t. Peronalized service, EXCELLENT food versus mediocre. Maybe even have a place with a live band in it.
People are not going to come to visit Downtown Greeneville so they can see the same garbage they can see at home. Give them something different to come see. Artisan’s shops. Eclectic shops. Get rid of the depressing store buildings that aren’t even open. Clean up downtown once and for all. Follow the example of Jonesborough, and, better yet, Asheville. Give people a REASON to come here and they will.
Looking like the rest of America (chain stores, chain restaurants, dollar garbage stores) won’t attract people.
Give the a UNIQUE reason to come and they will! Looking forward to it.
Comment by audrey macri — March 27, 2009 @ 6:15 pm
As a former resident of Greeneville, TN who now lives in SC I think there really needs to be a focus on developing good, affordable reasons for folks to go down there. I just read on this website that the county’s jobless rate is above 14%, and if you have a good restaurant that isn’t affordable the folks won’t come. I think trying to attract businesses like art galleries, eclectic shops and coffee houses are good starts. If you put an Olive Garden downtown it loses all sense of appeal. Save the chain restaurants for the bypass and other cities. Greeneville should focus on establishments that have character - German restaurants, Irish pub, sandwich shop, etc. Along with that comes a need to have CHEAP lease rates for downtown locations. The town should find a way to subsidize the cost of leasing a business location to promote people locating there. Finally comes housing. Some of the old buildings could be converted to quaint and unique housing opportunities.
Comment by Alan Jones — March 27, 2009 @ 9:32 pm
I moved here almost three years ago and I think Greeneville has lots of potential. The Rediscover Greeneville project is a great start. And I think that may be how Mr. Niswonger envisions it - a chance for others to join in his effort. We should use this as an opportunity to do more. I agree with the tone of other posts - we need a clean, well kept downtown. And we need to create a reason for people to visit downtown - like a previous poster wrote - “unique” things, not just the same old, same old. Yes, leave the chain restaurants and “big box” retailers on the bypass and save downtown for the small businesses. And patronize those small businesses!
We need to “Save the Capitol.” I went to the theatre several times for both plays and bluegrass concerts. It’s beautiful and needs to be part of the downtown landscape. One last thing - I hated to see Cafe Mojoe go - we need a coffeehouse and we really don’t have one. No, not Starbucks! A nice, locally owned coffeehouse!
Comment by Darren LaFrance — March 28, 2009 @ 11:36 am
I agree with everyone. As some people know I used to own The Backstage Coffee House which was located downtown and my Husband owned the Original New york style hot dog carts also located downtown. We sold them about four years ago and now own Ella’s (good music, good food) on the bypass. We loved our downtown location and desperately wanted to put Ella’s in downtown Greeneville. The problem is two fold. One, parking. We must have more accessible parking downtown. Two, the age of the buildings. Frankly some of them need a lot of work in order to get them up to code and independent business owners like myself just do not have it in the budget to fix them up.
I live downtown and am very passionate about restoring historic downtown. I worked with folks from the rediscover Greeneville team for well over a year trying to bring Ella’s downtown but due to building dilemmas it never came to pass. I have now been on the bypass next to popcorn video for one year and feel blessed to say that business has been fabulous. I wished things would have worked out downtown but without the downtown parking being addressed we would have never had the kind of business that we due.
It will probable take the money from corporate and franchise businesses to go downtown then once they are up and established they can pave the way for the independent but first someone has to fix the parking.
Thanks,
Ella Price
Comment by Ella Price — March 28, 2009 @ 6:19 pm
In making use of Greeneville and Greene County’s natural beauty (a source of many comments from vistors), I always believed that a great idea would be to essentially copy what Abingdon, VA to Whitetop, NC has done regarding the Virginia Creeper Trail (Approximately a 34 mile long trail, which is unpaved that connects Virginia and North Carolina….very beautiful). Since Greene County borders North Carolina and since Hot Springs, NC and Asheville, NC appear to be growing and/or “hot” places to visit and/or live for the outdoor types, Greeneville and Greene County could make an effort to partner up with our North Carolina neighbors and develop a Greeneville to Hot Springs, NC and possibly even Asheville, NC type of Creeper Trail (possibly even call it the Tennessee Creeper Trail) that winds through the country side and by the rivers and through the mountains connecting all the towns. Such an unpaved trail would allow people to hike, run, bike, or horse ride. Ultimately, such a trail may even play host to marathon, 10K runs, 5K runs, etc. Economically, Greeneville and Greene County would be impacted in a positive way regarding businesses that could develope that play host to the trail and the visitors that come from all over to make use of the trail.
Comment by Duncan Cave — March 28, 2009 @ 9:19 pm
ADDITIONAL IDEA. I’ve always heard that area businesses in the vicinity of the Bristol Nascar Race pull in enough revenue from that week or two to last the entire year. Similarly, I viewed a program on television in relation to Sturgis, South Dakota and bike/motorcycle week and how the community is positively impacted economically from just that one week; of which, and by the way, was very well policed. Of course, the rhetorical question I had to ask myself at the end of the program was what else does Sturgis, SD (small town) have to offer other than that one bike/motorcycle week? The obvious answer was nothing. Of course, when people from all over the country hear somebdoy say Sturgis, SD, then people automatically think bike/motorcycle rally. Not that I’m a motorcycle enthusiast, but I’ve certainly seen enough on the road around Tennessee and the South to know that many people are fans of motorcycle riding. Regardless, the crux of the idea would be that Greeneville could potentially play host to being the new Sturgis, SD of the South. Bottom line is that sin sells. For one week out of the year, Greeneville could become the sin city of the South or a pseudo Mardis Gras type of atmosphere; hosting a motorcycle rally or similar type of event. Sure, many area residents might decide to take a vacation that week and the police, jails, and court system might get over worked (with inreased revenue from fines coming in), but even amongst the motorcycle burnouts, heavy boozing, races, arrests, and half-naked people, the local economy booms. Afterall, these people would need somewhere to eat and sleep. Afterwards, Greeneville goes back to being the peaceful town as we know it.
Comment by Duncan Cave — March 28, 2009 @ 10:11 pm
Without doubt, Greeneville has one of the most beautiful and historic downtown areas in the region. When looking to develop the downtown area, I feel giving people (both local residents and those from outside the area) incentive to venture downtown is key. At this point, there isn’t much incentive to go downtown, especially in the evenings. The Rediscover Greeneville plans are great, but potential small businesses need to see people coming downtown to peak their interest in making an investment in Greeneville’s downtown community. Knowing the fate of many downtown businesses, I would cringe at the thought of investing in the downtown community.
If you take a look at other cities in the region with successful downtown areas, I feel there is a common thread. Knoxville’s Market Square has been thriving for several years. Jonesborough’s Main Street has many thriving shops and restaurants. Kingsport’s Broad Street has recently started to see rapid expansion, despite the struggling economy. Where is the common thread? They all saw tremendous growth after a spring/summer music series was started in each of the downtown areas. These events in each of the three cities are backed by local business sponsors and the city provides funding to allow the events to be free to the public. If you would ask the community leaders in each city, they would without doubt list the live music as a key to their thriving downtown areas. People come for the free music and pour money into the downtown area. This then provides incentive for businesses to locate downtown. People attending music then start to come back to visit downtown, not for the music, but because they begin to enjoy visiting the local shops and restaurants. You then see other community members stepping in to start other various downtown events, festivals and gatherings which further spark growth.
Maybe as a music lover I am a bit biased in my view, but do feel a music series would provide the boost needed to get many of the current plans off the ground. If others feel the same, please provide your thoughts.
Comment by Keeley Lowe — March 29, 2009 @ 9:32 pm
After reading the other comments, it’s clear that we all have one basic idea; get people downtown! There are many ways to do this, but certainly specialized activities could bring different people at different times of the year. Our area is already a major tourist attraction, although Greeneville is not specifically targeted for many as a destination. Yet when we consider that Jonesborough is consistently a major destination, along with the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, we should be able to give folks some reason to include Greeneville in their plans.
Keeley and I have been involved in bringing music to downtown Greeneville with good results, but that approach takes time and effort to “get the word out”. One of the most successful small music venues in the country, the Down Home in Johnson City, is nothing fancy, yet people travel hours to see shows there. Why, because of the experience in THAT VENUE. Working to develop music in a way that will appeal to people in Knoxville, Asheville, and other local areas, will certainly bring additional dollars to Greeneville. Restaurants and lodging will see the benefits, as will other local attractions. We saw this with the old Capitol Music Series from the Capitol Theatre, and I’m sure it can be duplicated and continued with proper planning.
Comment by Tim Carter — March 30, 2009 @ 8:27 am
When you think of ways to “improve” downtown, let’s not forget literacy. With ideas such as Mr. Niswonger’s “Education Corridor” being developed, Walters State’s campus renovation underway, and the fantastic job that K-12 and our Adult Education program are doing in reaching the children and adult students of our community, our town begs for a really good bookstore.
Currently, any of us interested in an ample, quality selection of books must drive to Johnson City or Knoxville in order to find them. We have only a small used bookstore and Walmart to choose from when we wish to browse for books; nowhere in Greeneville offers local as well as bestseller literature, national newspapers, and good coffee in a pleasant atmosphere. Downtown is the logical place for someone to open a store that would cater to children’s programs, reading circles, General Morgan Inn patrons, professionals working downtown, Tusculum College students, etc.
While dining, shopping, art and music are vital to downtown life and tourist appeal, a good bookstore can center a town and give it character. Start with the written word, a hardwood floor, comfortable seating, and the scent of coffee grounds, and see if “revitalize” doesn’t take on a whole new meaning.
Comment by Carla Todaro — March 30, 2009 @ 7:27 pm
If Greeneville and Greene County attracts a large corporation, then the probability of the town growing as a consequence is very high (same as Eastman in relation to Kingsport. . . wihout Eastman, Kingsport essentially wouldn’t exist). Greeneville and Greene County’s biggest selling point is the ability to sell a large corporation on the idea of saving costs in producing its own power via the abandoned Nolichuckey Dam that has recently been a subject of discussion with the TVA. In essence, a combined financial effort by Greeneville and Greene County, government grants, and the large corporation itself to restore the Nolichuckey Dam to its maximum output potential could lead to more jobs in our community. Perhaps the Dam itself could even be sold to the corporation…if possible? If Greeneville and Greene County could bring in an Eastman size corporation, then a larger class of engineers, scientists, CEOs, etc. would come to the community who would be more than willing to spend money and revitalize the community for recruitment purposes.
Comment by Duncan Cave — April 1, 2009 @ 9:55 pm
After reading through the comments and suggestions, I have to admit that I agree with most of them. There is a greater number of talented, enthusiastic people in the community than one would suspect upon first glance, and it’s obvious that they are doing their homework and researching models that work in other communities and trying to figure out how to adapt them for Greeneville.
Yet it’s far too easy to create a laundry list of what Greeneville doesn’t have or what Greeneville needs. I hear people that I admire on a daily basis speaking with tremendous passion about what they want, but not about what they have. There are too many people in Greeneville who are content to be discontent. They say they want to have great, live music, yet they didn’t support the Capitol Theatre Music Series, which was great by the way. They say they want bookstores and coffee shops (please support Chocolate Cafe instead of the drive-thru at McDonald’s), but they don’t patronize them when they open and they justify their lack of support by blaming the independent business owner for offering fabulous service instead of fabulously deep discounts and punch cards.
Everyone was relieved when the Andrew Johnson National Historic Site escaped being damaged in last year’s fire, but how many have actually walked through their door and offered support or even toured the home since it was a mandate from their 5th grade teacher? Everyone wants downtown development, but how many would support the establishment of a TIF district? It isn’t always easy or convenient to be an champion for your own community, but that’s how successful communities are built and local economies are diversified. It’s a long-term strategy.
To have an evolution in Greeneville’s marketplace, there needs to be a revolution in Greeneville’s mindset.
Comment by StinkyViolet — April 3, 2009 @ 2:23 pm
I agree the dialogue is good, but I keep seeing posts that Greeneville needs to add “this” or we need to renovate “that,” but everyone is leaving out the absolutely largest considerations of who is going to finance it? and who is going to spend money at the venue?, or are we going to just get another typical Greeneville business that is “hot” for six month before it ultimatley goes under? Bottom line is that before focus and financial resources go into the type of projects people are talking about, Greeneville and Greene County need to focus on the basics. We should be sick and tired of being the town that is “near Johnson City” or “east of Knoxville.” We need modern day identity. Yes, it’s fantastic that Andrew Johnson and Davy Crockett were either born or resided in Greeneville and Greene County and that John Hunt Morgan got shot in an alley in Greeneville, but we should not just be satisfied with historic identity. So, what constitutes modern day identity? Answer: large companies and businesses. Examples: Eastman to Kingsport, GM to Detroit, Phillip Morris to Richmond, Wal Mart to Benton, etc. The revenues and businesses that flow and prosper in these towns, I’m sure, far exceed Greeneville’s and Greene County’s. In essence, 110% effort needs to be made to attract similar extremely large companies (Foreign auto manufacturers, etc.) to Greeneviile and Greene County to give us modern day identity. As a consequence, we’d see more people flowing into the communtity that work for these companies who have the money to spend and who can support the venues previously talked about. Additionally, we’d see more restaurants and entertainment venues coming in to support the people that work at these companies. This may mean that the focus for Greeneville and Greene County should be on infrastructure (huge airport, highways, railways, power sources, etc.) that would be attractive for an extremely large company seeking to relocate or develop instead of the temporary band aids everyone is talking about. Outside of this type of effort or willingness to change, we will just end up with more of the same in the long run.
Comment by Duncan Cave — April 5, 2009 @ 10:10 pm
I disagree with the idea that in order for Greeneville to be a modern town, it needs massive corporations. It may only be semantics, but modern doesn’t necessarily mean large or industrial. It may have meant that in a Dickens novel, but not today. I’m not against corporations or community growth by any means, and Eastman has done tremendous things for Kingsport as well as East Tennessee. The medical industry in Johnson City has created a demand for education, retail development, and housing. Those are all good things. No question. Big businesses do bring money and jobs into a community, but they also absorb a lot of resources. Greeneville has seen what happens when an industry leaves a community - whether it is agriculture, tobacco markets, or even Magnavox. A small community with a singular industry base becomes a hostage to that industry, and unfortunately so does its talent. Industries also have to be diverse. Kingsport would be devestated if Eastman collapsed in much the same way that Detroit is hurting today. A healthy community, unlike a healthy person, can have many personalities. That’s the modern measure of quality of life and it’s where the creative class thrives. Of course Greeneville should look at bringing new industries (and new infrastructure) to the community, but it should only be part of a comprehensive plan.
Comment by StinkyViolet — April 8, 2009 @ 9:33 am
Who in our town is responsible for recruiting new business, i.e., restaurants, etc? Seems to me, there is not enough emphasis or effort put into this, as Greeneville is very limited in these establishments. I would personally like to see such as O’Charley’s, Chilli’s TGIF, Logan’s, somebody be approached about placing stores here. I know you all want to maintain the proverbial”small town” atmosphere, but come on, we need business in this place, as well as some decent places to eat. My personal opinion is that Greeneville is way behind the times in more ways than this, and we are held hostage with higher gasohol prices than any of our neighboring communities, in a time when we suffer the HIGHEST UNEMPLOYMENT RATE in east Tennessee. We need change. In reference to item #12 above, the last paragraph: These types of high-end people looking to settle somewhere look at such things as good eating establishments, etc. We offer very little.We need to quit worrying about “downtown” so much as our “whole town” dying for good. There are many American industrial and business centers that are large and prosperous, yet maintain a historical and cultural identity. Where does our city’s leaders eat,when they eat out? Johnson City? Kingsport? Morristown? I don’t recall seeing many of them at Ryan’s, Taco Bell, or Burger King.
Comment by Steve Campbell — April 10, 2009 @ 9:16 pm
In reference to #16…I don’t know if this is true, but here’s what I’ve been told about franchise restaurants. When franchise teams evaluate a town, one of their top metrics is population, specifically populations within city limits. They don’t put as much value on county population. Because Greeneville’s city population is low (compared to our county population), they assume Greeneville is too small to sustain a mix of franchise restaurants. One of the most interesting case studies I’ve seen in our area relates to the Chili’s in Johnson City. When their teams evaluated Johnson City, they estimated their customer base on Johnson City’s population, but failed to recognize that JC has become a dining hub for the surrounding counties, obviously including Greene County. Using the results from their study, they built that particular Chili’s to accommodate what they thought would be their customer base. Once they opened, they realized that they should’ve built a bigger store. When they went back to their original metrics - then looked at their actual customer base - they were surprised by how many out-of-town customers they really draw.
I’m not sure but I think the job of business recruitment, including restaurants, lies with the Greene County Partnership. I think it’s part of Economic Development. The sad thing is that people who live in Greeneville are essentially forced to look outside of our community for dining, shopping, and entertainment. Not only do we leak sales tax, but we also leak jobs outside of the community on an almost daily basis.
Comment by AngelFire — April 15, 2009 @ 8:52 am
Greeneville is a good place to live; a great place for families!
That said, even the best things in life can be improved upon. Being creative is not simply having “good ideas” to be creative one must “create” something.
Please don’t misunderstand; good ideas are a nice starting place, but they are just that. I’m reading some good “Big Ideas.”
Perhaps the first thing to do is to appoint some group to identify the best ideas.
Then take those ideas and break them into manageable phases.
Once this preliminary step is accomplished the selling of the vision should become much more doable.
Funding will hopefully follow.
All of this may have already been done. I’m not at all connected. If these steps have taken place, please disregard my comments, and forgive my ignorance.
The drawings that were done of the downtown revitalization are wonderful and useful to communicate the “vision.”
Someone said: Clean up the downtown. Great idea, but I think you could break it down farther.
Goal: clean up all the “fist impression” areas of the city. Every entrance ought to be made as attractive as possible.
Another said: Make downtown a Wi-Fi hotspot. Great idea.
Start with the area surrounding the General Morgan Inn courtyard.
Etc.
You get the idea.
Also, Greeneville is not a young, urban, hip, town and that’s ok. (Actually it’s better than ok.)
Greeneville is a family-friendly, great place to actually live town. Capitalize on our strengths don’t chase after stuff that we aren’t.
Developers are building (or at least, were building) places like this:http://mallimages.mallfinder.com/images2/DDR/Mall-birkdalevillage/mimages/mallMap.pdf , all over the country.
They are shopping centers that all have the same thing in common, they are trying to embody the small downtown feel. These developments have condos, apartments, and flats up stairs and dinning, shopping, and entertainment downstairs. Greeneville could be marketed in the same way with a fresh, vibrant, family-life vibe.
One more thing. I don’t know about everyone else but if my family is going to help support the downtown economy things are going to have to be open when we get off work. I think that Greeneville is primarily made up of hard working people who work, at least from 9-5. Unless you work downtown you have very little opportunity to patronize the downtown stores and restaurants. I saw a coffee shop going in downtown. The one in Tusculum is good; I hope the one downtown will stay open late enough for us to come after work, drink coffee, and socialize.
I’m a 28 year old guy who has only lived here for a little over five years. My wife and I moved from Charlotte, NC and we love it here. If nothing changes, Greeneville will still be a very good place to live, but you all are right, Greeneville could be on the cusp of greatness!
Comment by Brian Norris — October 29, 2009 @ 3:26 pm